Understanding The Bible – Rob Bell
SUMMARY
Rob Bell, a New York Times best-selling author, talks about his book What Is the Bible and shares his insights on what the Bible says to us.
The Bible made who we are today and is continuing to do so, even in the modern world.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
Every one of us is here to give ourselves to the healing of the world.
The real passion of life comes when you start asking yourself, “What am I here to give?”
The Bible is a book about what it means to be human.
The Bible is about politics, sexuality, forgiving your worst enemy, doubt, and the lack of belief.
Many of the Bible stories that people dismiss as primitive and barbaric were actually basic steps forward.
There’s an evolution as you go through each chapter of the Bible.
The Bible could be used to understand people, how we think, who we are.
The overstimulation of media and our senses stops us from being present and mindful.
People were taught to have certain emotions by their culture, family, or religion.
TRANSCRIPTION: UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE – ROB BELL
Luis Congdon
On today’s episode, we’re going to talking with Rob Bell about understanding the Bible through his new book What Is The Bible.
Kamala Chambers
Today, we’re here with New York Times best-selling author, Rob Bell. He’s been featured on Oprah and Time Magazine as one of the top 100 most influential people in the world.
We’re excited to dive in with Rob today to talk about understanding the Bible.
Luis Congdon
Hey, Thriving Launchers, we’re here with Rob Bell, author of Love Wins and many books. He’s also coming out with a fantastic new book titled What Is the Bible.
I’m excited to have him here before the book even releases to talk about what this book is about and the insights that Rob is offering us through his new book for understanding the Bible.
Without further ado, Rob Bell, it’s a pleasure to have you here, are you ready to launch?
Rob Bell
Absolutely. Let’s go.
Luis Congdon
So Rob, tell me a little bit about your new book.
Before the interview, you got me jazzed up. You reminded of my hours at Seattle University, Jesuit teachings. One of the things they taught me there was that the Bible was not just a religious book. It’s a textual piece of history that tells us a story of people.
I was blown away by that because after understanding the Bible, we realized it wasn’t just this religious piece of text that only pastors and religious people could look at. Also, academics could use it to understand people, how we think, who we are, and a particular community of individuals too.
I’m curious about that because you’ve had some amazing insights around understanding the Bible.
Rob Bell
Absolutely.
The new book is called What Is the Bible, and I’m going for the longest subtitle in the history of writing.
Kamala Chambers
You may have achieved it. I’m not quite sure if you’re quite there yet.
Rob Bell
The subtitle is “How an Ancient Library of Poems, Letters, and Stories Can Transform the Way You Think and Feel About Everything.”
Understanding The Bible And What It Is About
Rob Bell
I love how you say that. A lot of people believe that the Bible belongs to a particular religious group sort of over in the corner.
Rob Bell
With just one obvious example for understanding the Bible, the Bible’s written by a minority group of people, who had been conquered by one military superpower after another. So they have a perspective about power, weapons, violence.
People say, “Well, why would I read a book that has all that violence in the Old Testament?” A lot of those violence passages, the editor is putting those passages there to say, “Do you realize how ridiculous this violence is?” It’s way more attractive, intelligent, and provocative.
And so, often, people will pick up the bible, read the passage, and be like “Well, that’s kind of weird,” or, “That’s feudal” or, “That’s barbaric” or, “That’s primitive.” Yes, exactly. The writer thinks so too. The writer is like telling “Can you believe this? Seriously, you think that this is making things better?”
Understanding The Bible And Taking It Back
Rob Bell
One of the things I’m trying to do with the Bible is essentially to take it back. It’s been hijacked. It needs to be taken back so that everybody can see that these poems, letters, and stories are about politics, sexuality, and how you forgive your worst enemy. They’re about doubt and the lack of belief. There is much about the absence of the divine as they are about the presence of the divine.
The Bible is about the full spectrum of human experience, and a lot of people don’t realize how beautiful, poetic, dangerous, and subversive these books are.
Kamala Chambers
Can you give us some examples of how the Bible affects the way we see the world today?
Rob Bell
Absolutely.
Here’s an example. One of the things I do in the book about the Bible just takes you through a whole series of stories people think they’re familiar with. If you read carefully, you realize there are also other things going on.
For example, it would be the story of Noah, the ark, and the flood. Flood stories were not rare. In lots of cultures, the Babylonians, the Africans, a flood story was very a typical story telling device.
Stories For Understanding The Bible
Rob Bell
So when you read the story Noah and the flood, it’s not that unusual at that time for someone to explain things by using the story of a flood. Now, what’s interesting in the Noah story is most flood stories at the end, the Gods are angry, and they wipe everybody out.
The Noah story ends with this particular God saying, “I’m not going to do that again. I want to live at peace with you.” This was a radical brand new idea at that time in that place because the Gods were angry. The Gods were crushing and killing everybody.
So a story about a flood would have been familiar, but a story that ends with the divine being who wants to live in harmony with humans and creation was a radical progressive new idea.
A lot of these stories that people dismiss as primitive and barbaric in the Bible were necessary steps forward. When you go down the list of stories that are time blowing people’s minds at that point like the book of Leviticus was incredibly progressive for its day.
You begin reading and understanding the Bible written by real people in real places at real times, ask questions like, “What was the world like? How did people see things?” and learn what was happening at that point. Suddenly, you realize these stories not only does it tell you more about them, but it has all these fascinating edges for now. It gets interesting fast.
Luis Congdon
What I love is how you’re bringing me back to my school days, sitting there, listening to the Jesuit priest and nuns teaching.
I come from a Catholic country. Growing up when I was homeless, the Catholic church was a haven. My uncle and I as a young kid would go to the church two or three times a day.
There was an old nun. She had been a nun since she was 13 years old or so, but she was in her 20’s when I was down there. She would give us food. She would sneak food out of the nunnery and give it to my uncle and me.
Asking Questions Helps In Understanding The Bible
Luis Congdon
One of the things I had been indoctrinated into was just believed it, and don’t ask a lot of questions. There wasn’t a lot of looking at it from different angles and perspectives which don’t help in understanding the Bible. It was just the same teaching over and over.
I recall one time, there were couple of experiences I had, and one of them was the teacher said to me, “We want to look at the Bible also as look at how God is evolving with humans.” There is an evolution that’s happening, and you’re bringing me back to that experience. As I go through each chapter and book, there’s evolution.
Understanding The Bible And Seeing The Evolution Of Humans
Luis Congdon
Abraham goes to Abram like the names and God’s name changes. There’s this evolution, and you’re reminding me of that, and how understanding the Bible shows us how humans were evolving. There is a revolution happening throughout that book.
Rob Bell
Oh man! You’re on it, right.
When you begin reading and understanding the Bible that way, then passages that previously were “What is going on there?” would become “Ooh. This is interesting.” It shows you what it looks like when people are waking up and understanding the Bible well.
Understanding The Bible And Seeing Its 70 Faces
Rob Bell
Rabbis have talked about the Torah in the first five books being having 70 faces.
Luis Congdon
Right.
Rob Bell
There’s this ancient commentary that the sacred text or the bible has 70 faces. It’s like a gem, and so you keep turning the gem, and the light refracts differently each time you turn it.
With the scripture, you read the story, and you read it again, and you discuss for understanding the Bible. It’s like you throw things against the wall, you see what sticks. It’s a much more dynamic participatory relationship with the text.
Exercise For Understanding The Bible
Luis Congdon
One of the things you’re saying here brings me back to this exercise that we did one time for understanding the Bible. It comes from the Jewish tradition where you’ll take a piece of the Torah. You’ll pick a character and a theme, and you’ll write about it, and bring it more to life from your experience.
I remember I wrote about being the slave as if I was the slave of Abraham, and who gave birth to this child with Abraham. I wrote about that perspective and how it would felt for me to lose a friendship with Sarah, and to have this crazy relationship with Abraham that was confusing. I remember how I started to connect with the people there. That’s refreshing to hear you talk about that.
I want to ask you something though too that you said before the interview is looking at how this person have been dominated by superpowers time and time again, and how that has made people a little leery of kings and super powers. It creates this leeriness, and how that can even be used to inform. Looking at that and trying to understand those people can help us understand ourselves now in a time when there is a lot of super powers and turmoil.
Rob Bell
Right.
Luis Congdon
I’m curious about that.
Rob Bell
Absolutely.
Well, like you have the story takes you from these slaves being rescued from Egypt, and by the time of King Solomon who is building a temple using slave labor. This is a story about a group of slaves whose God hears their cry and rescues them from slavery.
Understanding The Bible And Its Powerful Warnings
Rob Bell
In a couple of generations later, their descendants are building a temple to honor the God who rescues people from slavery using slave labor. There’s just so many ways to read that. It’s profound.
You just began to ask questions like “What happens when a nation of immigrants starts refusing entry to immigrants to get current? What happens when a nation stops asking how we can bless, welcome, and care for people? But, how can we just fortify ourselves all the stronger?
Even then, you begin to read it personally. And what happens when we become consumed with the empire we’re building, and we can no longer hear the cry of the oppressed or the poor or the forgotten?
All of these are the biting present questions of the Bible, which are obviously, what we’re still talking about today. There are these important warnings.
Then you have the prophets who say, “If you develop too wide of a gap between the rich and the poor, your entire culture will erode from the inside.”
We now statistically have a wider gap than ever, and we’re feeling the effects of that. We have scientific data now about things that the prophets were talking about literally 25,000 years ago.
Kamala Chambers
Reminds me of the quote, “Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it,” and I’m looking and understanding the Bible. If we look at it as a history lesson, as a moment in time from history, what I hear you say is we can see how all of these things are continuing to repeat throughout time, and how they’re repeating today in our modern society.
What do you find is one of the most impactful things that you see repeating in today’s modern world?
Rob Bell
That’s a great question, and that goes back to something that was said earlier. In almost every gospel passage where Jesus’s asked a question, he responds with a question. He hardly ever gives an answer.
Understanding The Bible And Waking Up In The Modern World
Rob Bell
As a good Jewish rabbi of the first century, he responds with, “Well, what do you think? How do you read it? How do you interpret it? Who do you say that I am?” Essentially, it’s like he’s saying “You’re going to have to own this and struggle with this.” And even the word “Israel” means to struggle.
You’re going to have to wrestle with this. You’re going to have to work it out in your time at your place.
In some ways, that feels like the modern world is a system designed to help people stay asleep. That the power of the Bible is it insists that you have to walk your path and wrestle with the big questions of your life, and our communal life together.
If we don’t take responsibility for our lives and our communal lives together, then people will exploit the earth. They’ll elect people who don’t have everybody’s best interest in mind. We will suffer as a result.
Power Of Understanding The Bible
Rob Bell
Part of the power of understanding the Bible at the first level, it just simply says, “Life is a precious, sacred holy gift, and it’s of utmost importance how you respond to this gift. You are invited to wake up and take significant responsibility for it.” That alone is something that I would argue more than ever.
Kamala Chambers
That is compelling to look at how we are in a culture right now that is designed to keep us asleep from the food just like what you said and keep us away from understanding the Bible.
I think it’s from the foods that we eat, the over stimulation of media, and of our senses.
Rob Bell
Right.
Kamala Chambers
Everything that takes us into a subdued state where we stop being present, we cease to be mindful, we stop recognizing that there is a human being in front of us that deserves our love just as much as everyone else.
I think those principles for understanding the Bible are founded in love and in that state of love which is most important, and you take care of the people around you, and your community.
What would you say to that? What do you feel is the thing we’re missing that we can bring into our modern culture that the Bible teaches us?
Rob Bell
I begin with some called the Eucharist mystery that you have Jesus calling his followers essentially to break themselves open and pour themselves out for the healing of the world.
Understanding The Bible And Knowing What You Can Give
Rob Bell
There’s this ancient Hebrew phrase “Tikkun Olam” which means the repair, the restoration, and the healing of the world. And so, we’re all invited to enter in and ask the question, what can I give? How can I serve? How can I be broken open and poured out for the blessing and well-being of others?
It’s fascinating to me when I go out and tour, how many people have the sense that they’ve have been told: “It is about you achieving, accomplishing, and accumulating.” And yet, often, what happens is people get a garage full of stuff, and then they’re like, “Is this seriously it like more stuff?”
Achieving Vitality From Understanding The Bible
Rob Bell
It’s not “What can I get and accumulate?” But, “What am I here to give?” That can be full range.
I do events where I just create a space where people can wrestle with that one question. Sometimes, it’s found in love. What do you love to do? Who do you love? Who do you want to give?
Sometimes, it’s found in anger. What is it that makes you angry about the world? What injustice have you seen that just cranks you up? And you’re here to tackle that injustice. Who has no voice? And you are invited to become a voice for them and to stand up for them. That’s just a different set of questions. That’s when it gets dangerous and exciting, and interesting.
Understanding The Bible Will Lead You To Your Path
Rob Bell
The modern day’s system breeds boredom. We can now watch any movie we want, and we’re more bored than ever. Your way will probably involve some risk, cost, and sacrifice. Perhaps, not everybody around you will understand it, but you will be more alive than ever when you begin asking “How can I break myself open and pour myself out for the healing of the world?”
Understanding the Bible will make you realize that this question keeps coming up.
Kamala Chambers
This is something I’ve seen in Native American traditions and other cultures.
In Native American cultures, they call it The Hallow bone which means being able to be that vessel that you’re talking about.
Rob Bell
I like that.
Kamala Chambers
Yeah.
Understanding The Bible And Other Belief Systems
Kamala Chambers
There are many different ways to walk through this world and many different ideas. The more I learn about different beliefs systems, the more I realize it all comes down to the same stuff, which is about love, goodness, and treating other people well.
Rob Bell
Yeah.
Kamala Chambers
And yet, there are many different ways of understanding the Bible. Many different views are depending on who you are at the moment or what religion you’ve chosen. You can interpret the same thing in many different ways.
I’m not anyone to say what the right way is to look at it. What do you find are some of those foundational principles you feel get lost the most that are the most important for understanding the Bible?
Rob Bell
In reading the Bible, the first question always to ask is “Why did anybody bother to write this down? What was happening in them? What was going on in the world at that time? Why was this important to somebody?”
Understanding The Bible And Searching For The Human Condition
Rob Bell
Mostly, you’re searching for the human condition. Was it lost? Was it confusion? There’s a group of poems in the Hebrew Scriptures called Lamentations, “And the city has been destroyed” and these poets are essentially sitting the midst of the rubble.
What do you do when everything familiar has been burned to the ground? What do you when your life is gone as you know it and you have to start a whole new life? And lots of people can relate to.
So the first question I always ask is “Why did this get written down and why did it endure? What human condition, what human question, what pain, what lost, what joy did this speak to?
Obviously, there are horrific and wrong ways to read it, but right and wrong might not be the best categories. The best categories might be “What is the human thing that’s happening in this story and this passage? And if I can get to that, I might have an entirely different set of questions I’m now asking. It’s much more interesting and much more inviting to everybody.
Luis Congdon
I don’t know the exact way to phrase it, but I remember reading the addition of the Bible from the Oxford Institution. They had their notes and maps in there.
It was interesting to look at how when we looked at somebody who might have had a fight with someone or something happened in the Bible that the names also correlated with a land.
Understanding The Bible And The Politics In It
Luis Congdon
And so, somebody’s name wasn’t just like we just chose to have these two people fight, but it’s also showing how then, people decided to fight over land because of this person, Jordan is a correlation of the land, Jordan, and a relationship of this other land.
Now, that those two people fight, and then there’s a war, you’re like, “Whoa! Now, I understand on a deeper level what was going on and why they wanted to tell the story.” It was also a political book. There’s also a politics being played out.
Rob Bell
Absolutely.
A lot of people don’t know this which I think is vital more than ever. From the very opening pages of the Bible, a person’s spirituality and health as a member of a tribe were directly related to your connection to the soil. Spirituality was always enmeshed with the soil, which is a proper relationship to the land.
Understanding The Bible And Our Connection To The Soil
Rob Bell
We talk now about the massive environmental destruction going on. From the opening pages of the Bible, it’s an assumption that if you’re living out of harmony with the soil, your entire life, and politics, religion, culture, economics, the soul. Everything will deteriorate if you aren’t in a right relationship with the soil.
It’s funny how many ideas people would see as progressive are assumed right away in the opening pages of the Bible. Of course, you wouldn’t exploit the earth. Of course, you wouldn’t pollute it. It’s central to your health.
Kamala Chambers
It’s crazy to me that we’ve gotten so far away from that.
I see this mentality that we are human, and so, we can dictate anything we do to the environment because we rule it. I never knew that was in the Bible. It’s refreshing to hear that.
Before we round up, what is the last message you want the Thriving Launchers to walk away with for understanding the Bible?
Rob Bell
I always begin with whatever you’re carrying around, pain, loss, despair. Doubts, insecurities, dreams, desires, hopes, don’t hold any of that down. Get it all out.
Understanding The Bible And Getting Everything Out
Rob Bell
Whatever you’re carrying around, don’t hold any of it. Get it all out.
But often, people were taught by their tribe, culture, family, or religion certain emotions. They were taught that certain feelings are okay, and others aren’t.
You’re a human being, so whatever you’re feeling is probably normal.
The path to health will never be denial or repression. It will always be being honest about that, and give it expression. Drag it up, and whatever it is, it’s probably an entirely normal response to what you’ve been through.
When you get that out, then you’re free. Then, you no longer have any ghosts. Then, your shadow has been illuminated. Then, now, you’re dangerous. Now, you can launch, thrive, and do what you’re here to do.
Kamala Chambers
Rob Bell, everyone. We’ve been talking about his new book What Is the Bible and understanding the Bible. The last part says about what we think and feel about everything, the changes that came from that ancient book, how it shapes who we are today, and how it can continue to shape who we are.
I just encourage you all to get that book from Rob Bell. It’s going to be a fantastic book when it’s released and keep thriving everyone.
