Travel The World – Rolf Potts
SUMMARY
On this episode, we are here with Rolf Potts, who wrote the iconic book Vagabonding: An Uncommon Guide to the Art of Long-Term World Travel, which is a book that greatly inspired a lot of people. Also, he has written for National Geographic Traveler, The New Yorker, Slate.com, Outside New York Times, The Believer, The Garden, and Sports Illustrated. He’s written several books and traveled the world.
Rolf talks about what extended stay in other countries means and how it is possible for you to do it now and plan it by yourself.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
An extended stay in other countries is about taking time off from your normal life to travel the world slowly. It’s not just going to another place, but staying in other places and experiencing them.It’s not that hard not just to travel, but to live overseas.
You can live overseas far more cheaply than in most major American city.
If traveling the world is something you want to do, then decide it’s going to happen. It then becomes a part of how you live in the present day.
Check into a hotel on your day one on wherever you decided to go, then see how local people live and talk to them to see where they rent apartments.
Buying into travel in pre-packaged ways are fine but unnecessary,
The more you travel the world and plan it by yourself, the easier it becomes and the more instincts you have.
When someone is afraid to travel, convince them to go on a trip with you. Let them see how comfortable you are in another environment.
Traveling broadens you just in being able to know the possibilities for your happiness.
Take some baby steps like going to some place for two weeks. Get a taste of it and see how much things cost, and learn how to haggle a little bit.
TRANSCRIPTION: TRAVEL THE WORLD – ROLF POTTS
Kamala Chambers
On this episode, we’re going to be talking about long-term extended world travel, which is one of my favorite topics.
Luis Congdon
Today’s guest is Rolf Potts. He’s most well-known for his iconic book Vagabonding: An Uncommon Guide to the Art of Long-Term World Travel. It’s a book that greatly inspired me and changed my whole life, but on top of that, Rolf Potts has also written for National Geographic Traveler, The New Yorker, Slate.com, Outside New York Times, The Believer, The Garden, and Sports Illustrated. He’s been all over, written several books, and traveled the world. Today, we are honored and delighted to have him on Thriving Launch.
All right, Thriving Launchers, we are here with Rolf. Let’s get started. Are you ready to launch Rolf?
Rolf Potts
I am ready to launch. Let’s talk about how to travel the world.
Luis Congdon
All right!
Traveling abroad, living abroad, extended stays in other countries, this is something that Kamala completely loves.
Kamala Chambers
Yeah.
Luis Congdon
Thriving Launchers, you guys know that. She sometimes tries to get me into travel the world a little too long, but anyways, let’s get back on topic, guys.
We want to know about the extended stay in other countries. Rolf, what does that mean? Tell us a little bit about that.
What Extended Stay In Other Countries Mean
Rolf Potts
Well, under the umbrella of Vagabonding, it’s an idea which has changed over the years. It’s been 15 years since I came out with Vagabonding, and the word “digital nomad” was not used at all.
But it’s about taking time off from your normal life to travel the world in earnest, to travel the world slowly, to not just go to other places, but stay in other places and experience them. Maybe it’s close to a local experience as possible, and it sounds like you guys have done quite a bit of it.
I think being able to travel the world is something that a lot of Americans think they can’t do either because of money or because of bad, dangerous news coming out of other countries, or because it seems so logistically complicated.
And so, a lot of what I talk about in Vagabonding is just encouraging people that it’s much about mindset as logistics, and in a way, the logistics as I’m sure you guys have learned, sort themselves out on a specific trip.
The fears are always bigger than you thought that they would be.
The expenses, if you can discipline yourself, are always smaller than you would imagine them to be.
Possibility Of Travel the World Now
Rolf Potts
A big seed of what I talk about in Vagabonding is just convincing yourself that you can do travel the world and that you can do it now. You don’t have to wait until you retire until you have the six-figure nest egg saved up, and just being mindful, modest, and determined. It’s not that hard not only to travel but to live overseas and in some ways, you can live abroad far more cheaply than in most major American city.
Kamala Chambers
It’s one of my biggest motivators for having an online company because I love to travel the world so much, and the opportunities to live in other cultures.
Luis Congdon
Well, you like it so much that you found a way to build it into your life to make it part of not just something you do. You’re in there, but part of what you do as a staple in your business, and as a staple in your lifestyle.
Kamala Chambers
Well, I even forced you into it too.
Luis Congdon
Yeah, and Thriving Launchers, something I want to say, Rolf, that you mentioned, and Kamala did this for me is I remember picking up your book, then picking up The 4-Hour Workweek, and reading about these persons that are traveling the world. At that time, I was working a 9-5 or more like an 8-9 kind of job.
You and Tim Ferris were saying, “Oh, there are these amazing opportunities in this countries and you can do this and that, and you can get educated and all these different things but in the country of the origin of that knowledge.” I dreamt about it, and I took a whole week off work. I called in sick for several days so that I could read your book.
The thing is, I met Kamala, and she said, “Luis, you don’t have to be a millionaire to travel. Let’s do it now.”
Rolf Potts
Yeah, and it’s doable.
Travel The World As Part Of Your Life
Rolf Potts
I’ve been doing it long enough that I’m surprised that people still don’t know, but it’s true. There’s this prevailing American attitude that we solve our problems with money, that we pay for our escapes with money, or even that we see our travels as an escape from real life instead of just something that can become central to the way we are in the world.
I think that’s why it was great that a lot of people read my book in tandem with The 4-Hour Workweek, which doesn’t appear in the travel section. It’s a book that you pick up in the business section, and driven people will read it, and I think the genius of Tim is just convincing them that there are other ways to be successful. There are other ways of being in the world, and that you don’t need to throw a million dollars at a travel problem.
In fact, you could travel the rest of your life if you had a million dollars to throw at travel.
Travel The World Affordably
Kamala Chambers
What I want to say to people when they say “I can’t afford to travel,” I want to say, “You can’t afford not to travel.” It’s because you can go to places where the cost of living is so much less, and you could get a place for less, you could sublet out your house.
In Thailand, all your meals are for $5 a day. You can make it inexpensive, and I try to tell that to Luis too, and he’s pretty good at listening now.
But I’d love to hear from you for people who are thinking about doing this getting out in the world more, what do you say to them? How do you even get started?
Make A Decision To Travel The World
Rolf Potts
One, if you want to travel the world, then decide it’s going to happen.
I think research is important, and I’ll get to that in a second, but I think that you can spend your whole life planning sort of pushing your big journey two years into the future. I believe you decide that you’re going to do it in two years, in the year 2020 or six months from now, or whatever is realistic in your schedule.
Once you’ve decided you’re going to do it and there’s no going back, then it becomes a part of how you live in the present day like when you’re making money to save for travel. Some people make money while they travel. The way I got started is I sort of saved this pool of money that would fund my trips and allow me not to make income while I travel while I took advantage of the cost of living that was way lower than back home.
Then, it becomes this active process, and then you can start researching things. We live in an age now when you can go to digital nomad communities that have already been set-up in other countries that are cheaper than living in a place like San Francisco or New York.
Research Before You Travel The World
Rolf Potts
The old school way is just doing your research.
Find your apartment. Check into a hotel day one on the island of Bali or in Mozambique or Uruguay or wherever you decided to go, and then just see how local people live. Talk to see where local people rent apartments.
I think the more personal information you get, either through research beforehand or on the ground has a way of unraveling those fears about expenses, about dangers, about logistics, and things like that.
Travel The World In A DIY Way
Rolf Potts
And so, I’m a big fan of do-it-yourself. I think people sometimes underestimate their resources when it comes to being able to figure it out as they go. We live in an age where you can see pictures and videos and get all sorts of resource information about every place in the world practically that you want to go.
The temptation is to plan every step of the way but sometimes that takes out serendipity, and it makes it a little bit more expensive because, after one week or one month on the road, you’re already a smarter traveler than you ever could have been sitting in your office.
I guess this is a piece of advice that I am giving more strongly than I did 15 years ago, to do it yourself. To find your way because there are more and more ways to, again, buy into travel in pre-packaged ways that are fine, but are unnecessary.
Encourage Other People To Travel The World and Do It Themselves
Rolf Potts
I’m sure you guys are at the point now having done it enough that you have savvier. The more you do it, the better you are at them, the easier it becomes the more instincts you have, and the more you can help and encourage other people to do the same.
It’s encouraging to see many people doing it these days just because there’s no reason why you can’t if it’s something you dream about doing.
Don’t Limit Yourself From Being Able To Travel The World
Luis Congdon
As you were talking, one of my close friends came to mind, and this is true for a lot of people in The United States, and some of the developing countries that have enough economic resources to travel. It’s because I wanted to set aside just as a caveat if you can’t afford it, honestly can’t afford, then I understand. However, many of us can, or we can find a way to afford it as Kamala and Rolf has suggested there. There are options out there and don’t limit yourself.
I want to come back to my question.
Why People Are Afraid To Travel The World
Luis Congdon
I have a friend. He can afford to travel. He doesn’t have a passport, and he watches me travel the world and says, “Oh, I’m envious. I admire that you can do that.” I asked him, “Why don’t you come with me sometime or why don’t you go on an adventure and travel outside of The United States?” He goes, “Because I’m scared. I don’t know what I’ll find when I go over there, and I don’t know how I’ll deal with the world when I’m there.”
What do you say to that kind of thing?
Rolf Potts
Man, that’s a tough one, especially when he sees you doing it.
It’s a common fear that can sometimes express itself in anger. Sometimes people say, “Oh, you’re self-indulgent.” “You’re making it all about you.” When in fact, I think that’s a barrier that people throw up between what they could do and what they believe they are allowed to do.
Show People How It Is To Be Able To Travel The World
Rolf Potts
I think it takes time. I don’t think there’s a silver bullet that can kill the fear of someone who can do it but isn’t doing it. A lot of times, it is eventually convincing them to come on a trip with you and just letting them quietly see how comfortable you are in another environment.
There shouldn’t be an excuse anymore. People talk about things happening in the news. Well, the news is a man by its dog world. People don’t report about peaceful, beautiful places.
Maybe encourage him to sort of develop some habits. Maybe follow some travel bloggers who are doing it in real time, maybe people from a similar background as him or her, and then perhaps even someone with even less money than him and seeing what’s happening.
You can go to a beautiful hotel in a place like Thailand, and spend $50, which seems cheap, but you can spend $5 in a hotel in Thailand too and get a perfectly nice sleep as well. There’s much information out there, yet, people like your friend are still there. I think part of it is giving them information.
Philosophy of Being Able To Travel The World
Rolf Potts
Another part of it is just giving them philosophy. It’s like “When you’re old and on your deathbed, what are you going to think about? Are you going to think about your 100,000th tweet or that funny conversation you had on social media or your 900-week in a row of going to the office?” It’s probably not.
I think the way the time slows down and the way experience becomes very vivid, experience good and bad on the road, gives you memories.
Travel The World To Broaden Yourself
Rolf Potts
I realize that’s a cliché phrase, but it broadens you just in being able to know the possibilities for your happiness.
That’s the other side. That’s the philosophical side saying, “Here’s the logistics but here is why you should do it now.” There are a million reasons not to do it, but man, once you have done it, then you’re grateful for having allowed yourself to do that.
Kamala Chambers
Well, here’s one way that we have forced 30 to 40 of our closest friends and family members.
Luis Congdon
Including the scaredy-cat friend who’s probably listening to this.
Creating A Way so Your Loved Ones Can Travel The World
Kamala Chambers
To travel the world with us is we’ve decided to get married in Colombia, a country that has a ton of stigma around it, but now, we’ve had already 23 people to this day buy their tickets already.
Luis Congdon
Many of them had to go out and buy their passports for the first time or renew them, which they haven’t done in forever.
Kamala Chambers
Yeah.
Rolf Potts
Wow.
Kamala Chambers
Yes.
To me, that was one way that I could share our lifestyle with people. It is to create an experience for them, and I’m spearheading the whole thing with what kind of adventures are we creating, and we’re creating an entire adventure travel with all these people that we love so much.
Travel The World And Plan Your Itinerary Online
Kamala Chambers
One reason I’m bringing it up is we’re not in Colombia right now. We go there every year, but we’re not there right now. I’m trying to book these hotels or book places, apartments for people, get a wedding venue, and do all of this from abroad. Just for the little online research, I can find inexpensive things with going to people’s websites and going to research on Facebook or Airbnb.
Luis Congdon
And you can talk to people through WhatsApp in Spanish and use Google Translate.
Kamala Chambers
Yeah.
Luis Congdon
And plug-in everything, and have a conversation.
How FB Groups Can Help You Travel The World
Kamala Chambers
Yeah.
A great resource I’ve found is to join Facebook groups of people who are living in the area that you want to travel to, and you can get significant resources from people that are already living there.
Luis Congdon
I wanted to ask Rolf if he had any other suggestions for people who want to travel the world, live abroad and have an extended stay. That’s kind of what you were hinting at with that is if you’re joining a Facebook group, you have a resource.
Kamala Chambers
That’s exactly what I was going to ask.
Luis Congdon
Do you have any other suggestions with that?
Rolf Potts
Well, it’s funny that you mentioned Colombia because I went there a few years ago, and I know a lot of people who go there.
Travel The World, And To Countries The Are Not Heavily “Touristed”
Rolf Potts
It has this sort of narcos reputation for danger, which is why one of the reasons why it’s okay. It’s like any country with a bad reputation is probably going to be inexpensive, not as heavily touristed, not as heavily encrusted with sort of the tourist matrix that is in the Cancun’s of the world, and it’s just a great place.
Where is your wedding happening?
Kamala Chambers
It’s in Medellin.
Rolf Potts
Medellin.
Luis Congdon
I was born in Medellin, Colombia.
Thriving Launchers, you guys know my story. I was born there. I was adopted at the age of eight, and then at the age of 18, I returned to Colombia and reunited with my family. Now, both families will meet each other for the first time in my life.
Medellin, Colombia, like you were saying, has a lot of bad stigmas.
Rolf Potts
What it does is a metaphor for the drug trade, but man, I’ve been there. It’s a modern city. It’s inexpensive.
A couple of challenges for your 23 wedding guests so far is that use this as a chance to slingshot.
See How Some Places Are Much Different Than What You Think
Rolf Potts
Celebrate the wedding of your friends, but also do your homework and see how easy it is and how nice it is to get around, and how the reality of Medellin is so much different than what you might have suspected before it happens.
There are lots of expats in Medellin. That’s a beautiful world city. That’s a place where people go and live very comfortable lives for much less than they would live in a comfortably beautiful American city or even an ugly American industrial town.
There’s much to be said about Medellin and to be honest, there are Medellin’s all over the world, ort of quietly great places to live that don’t cost much, that you would have never guessed, but that’s the case.
Kamala Chambers
I want to hear your top couple of them. I’d love to hear that.
Rolf Potts
My life is an ongoing research project of beautiful places to live to the point where every winter, it’s different.
I was in Southern Africa last year. Have you guys been to Southern Africa?
Kamala Chambers
No, we haven’t been yet.
Luis Congdon
It’s on the list.
Rolf Potts
Okay.
Travel The World And Know What Countries Don’t Cost Much
Rolf Potts
Mozambique was great. I wouldn’t recommend the capital city. I’m sure there are some fine places in the capital city, but if you would want a good ‘beachy’ country that isn’t over-touristed and is very chill that you could live for 20 bucks a day on the beach in a place like Mozambique. That’s just one place I know about.
I lived in Cape Town for a while. I heard they’re out of water so I’ll skip past that. I also went in the Skeleton Coast of Namibia. The year before, I was in Buenos Aires, and Patagonia, in Argentina. I also went to Uruguay, which not many people go to and it sort of the Kansas of South America. I’m from Kansas, so that doesn’t bother me. It has beautiful beaches, and it’s a very chill country. It’s this very well-functioning little country in South America.
This year, I went to Hawaii, which I’ve never been to before. I’ve been to 75 countries before I ever went to Hawaii and loved it. It is not cheap.
Kamala Chambers
No.
Travel the World And Have Beautiful Experiences
Rolf Potts
It’s America prices, but man, I enjoyed myself there.
I’m trying to think of other examples. It’s been a while since I’ve been to the Middle East, but Cairo is a place that I think a lot of people wouldn’t go to, but there are comfortable, beautiful experiences to be had in a city like Cairo. I could go on and on.
When it comes to price, maybe avoid Europe and Far East Asia, but almost any other country, maybe Australia, New Zealand, but even those places can be slightly cheaper than The United States, and also great places to spend a winter.
How long do we have? How many cities do you want me to tell you about?
Kamala Chambers
I like just the name dropping you did in those countries. That opens up possibilities for people, new places to check out and look into.
Before we go, are there any last gems or tips that you want to leave the Thriving Launchers with to make extended travel more of a possibility?
Rolf Potts
I’ll probably go back to decide it’s going to happen and make it a plan. I hate to go back to the same talking points, but they’re essential talking points.
Rolf Potts
Don’t isolate your dream life to some far distant part of your life or into some part of your life when you have X amount of dollars.
Do Some Training Wheels To Get Ready To Travel The World
Rolf Potts
Maybe even do some training wheels trip instead of taking a year off. Go to someplace for two weeks. Get a taste of it. Enjoy some beaches, see how much things cost, and learn how to haggle a little bit. Taking baby steps in the long-term travel is possible.
You don’t have to go from no passport to a year in Asia out of nowhere. You can go to your friend’s weddings in Colombia. You can find ways to get a little taste, and I’ve seen friends. I’ve had friends from Kansas, which is a fairly isolated place, who as they’ve gone older have sort of baby step their ways into pretty amazing travels.
Believe You Can Travel The World
Rolf Potts
Believe. Believe and then make it happen. That’s probably the best advice I have when you want to travel the world.
Luis Congdon
I love that as an end note because Thriving Launchers, that’s what we’re about.
Expanding your mind, helping you take baby steps into a new more enhanced version of your life, increase the freedom, and an ability to have the life you want.
Take Baby Steps First Before You Travel The World
Luis Congdon
Rolf, it’s been a pleasure to have you here to talk about being able to travel the world. Number one reason Thriving Launchers why we had him is because we want you to dream. We want you to go out there and have ideas, have visions, and the world is full of possibilities, but first, you got to take some baby steps, and I think that’s a great note to end on.
Thriving Launchers, love you guys, and we’ll catch you on the next episode. Keep thriving you all.
