Decoding Body Language – Vanessa Van Edwards
SUMMARY
Vanessa Van Edwards, a decoding expert, shares some statistical cues, which are commonly given by people who tell lies. You can watch for these, but she emphasizes that no one cue means that someone is definitely telling a lie.
Understanding, reading, and decoding body language is essential for lie detection and useful in building relationships with others.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
There is no Pinocchio’s nose. No one cue means someone is lying.Statistically speaking, there are things lairs do more often than truth-tellers.
If lie detection is done carefully, it can increase your ability to spot lies, but it’s not fool-proof.
Eyebrow raise is a sign of engagement or curiosity.
A nod is a very powerful and underutilized non-verbal cue of acknowledgment, engagement, and agreement.
TRANSCRIPTION: DECODING BODY LANGUAGE – VANESSA VAN EDWARDS
Luis Congdon
On today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about decoding body language, how to tell if someone is lying, telling the truth, or being incongruent.
We’re bringing on a decoding body language expert that can tell you exactly how to read people, and how to know if they’re lying.
Kamala Chambers
We are here with Vanessa Van Edwards, who is a lead investigator at the Science of People which is a human behavior research lab.
She is a best-selling author. She’s been chosen as one of Apple’s most anticipated books of 2017. She writes for Huffington Post and Entrepreneur magazine. She’s been featured on NPR and a ton of other publications. She’s even worked with Fortune 500 companies.
We’re thrilled to have her on the show to talk about decoding body language.
Luis Congdon
All right, Thriving Launchers, have you wanted to know more about decoding body language to understand people better and get the things that people don’t tell you, but the things you want to know?
Well, we’re bringing on Vanessa, who is a professional and an expert at decoding body language. Without further ado, Vanessa, are you ready to launch?
Vanessa Van Edwards
Oh, we’re launched, my friend. I’m ready.
Luis Congdon
Let’s dive into some of the cool stuff because decoding body language is a subject matter that thoroughly interests me. I’m fascinated by it.
I remember when I was a kid, this has stuck with me for so long. This expert was talking about decoding body language and signs you could use to tell someone was lying.
Decoding Body Language To Know If Someone Is Telling A Lie
Luis Congdon
One of the things they said is most people are right-handed. I don’t know if this is true. You can tell me or not, but this is what I remember. If somebody says something, and they’re right hand dominant, but all of the sudden, they start scratching their face, especially up high on their face. They’re telling you something, but they’re scratching their face. A lot of times, that’s a sign of being incongruent, and we have these natural twitches that we do when we’re not truthful.
Is there any truth to that that we have certain signals that we give off when not telling the truth, or we’re incongruent?
Vanessa Van Edwards
Yes.
There’s something fascinating science on human lie detection, and in our lab, I was very curious what held up with the research. People have heard, “Oh, if you look up for laughter, up to the right, it means you imagine things.” “If you touch your face,” “If you scratch your left shoulder,” and all these things.
Decoding Body Language – No Single Cue Could Mean Someone’s Lying
Luis Congdon
That’s interesting.
I remember I taught that to somebody and then they were like, “Wait. You’re lying.” And I said, “But I’m left-handed,” and my eye does itch. I have allergies.
Vanessa Van Edwards
Right.
What’s important here is there are statistical cues to deceit. These are when we observe liars in the lab, and we have them do horrible lying experiment with us, and we videotape them.
Decoding Body Language – Be Careful Of The Baseline
Vanessa Van Edwards
Statistically speaking, there are things liars do more often than truth tellers. However, we have to be careful of what’s called a baseline. A baseline is how someone operates or behaves under normal non threatening circumstances.
For example, if you have someone who has bad allergies, their eyes itch, and they’re kind of “ahem, ahem, ahem” with their throat. They are going to be doing that whether they’re telling the truth or not. For them, even though that is typically many liars do, it’s no.
Doing Lie Detection Carefully Can Increase Your Ability On Decoding Body Language
Vanessa Van Edwards
That’s why lie detection is quite a robust science on decoding body language. We teach it in five steps. That’s how long it takes. If it’s done carefully, it can increase your ability on decoding body language and spotting lies, but not fool-proof, and no should ever promise that it is.
Kamala Chambers
That’s interesting.
Is there any telltale science on decoding body language you could tell that someone is trustworthy as a human being and that someone you feel is approachable?
Two Statistical Cues On Decoding Body Language
Kamala Chambers
I just want to say Luis, I can always tell when you’re lying, and I’m a little hesitant to say when I know. But you get a little smile on your face and put your hand over your mouth to cover it. He’s looking away right now. Those are the things that I’ve learned about Luis that tell me when he’s lying.
Are there other things on decoding body language that we could tell if a person is just generally trustworthy?
Luis Congdon
Hold on. Those are joke lies.
Vanessa Van Edwards
It’s inching you bring that up. Those are two statistical cues.
Understanding Decoding Body Language And What Duping Delight Means
Vanessa Van Edwards
First of all, there’s something called duping delight.
Duping delight is when someone lies, and they have just a little bit of this joy that they pulled something over on someone, and they laugh their nervousness. Like if someone laughs at a funeral, for example, we can sometimes smile or laugh even in times of extreme nervousness or guilt.
It’s quite common to see liars smile. It’s also very common to have liars cover their mouth. Again, not a Pinocchio’s nose but think about it this way.
Decoding Body Language – People Don’t Like To Lie
Vanessa Van Edwards
Lies get us in trouble. We know from a very young age that lies can hurt people’s feeling. We can get caught. There could be a punishment or consequence. We don’t like to lie.
Also, it takes an incredible cognitive load to lie. You’re keeping the truth straight. You’re trying to get the lie straight. You’re trying to tell it, be convincing, read the other person. It’s very hard on the brain.
Decoding Body Language – How The Brain Avoids Lying
Vanessa Van Edwards
What happens is the brain, at all cost will avoid lying. One thing it does from a non-verbal perspective is you’ll often see liars will put their hand in front of their mouth or even their finger in front of their mouth as if they’re saying “Shh.” It’s because their brain is like, “Nope. No. Keep it in. Don’t do it. Don’t say it.”
And so, sometimes, liars will put their hands up to their mouth or their fingers up to their mouth almost as a way to try to keep the lie.
Decoding Body Language And How People Keep The Lie
Vanessa Van Edwards
That’s very common that you would smile and cover your mouth. That’s one of the statistical cues when you’re decoding body language.
Kamala Chambers
That’s fascinating. I hope Luis doesn’t try to change it now because it’s awesome to be able to pick those signals up but that’s someone you know well.
What about people that you don’t know well? How can we start to read people’s facial expressions, and not just with lying, but just other social cues that people put out there?
Vanessa Van Edwards
I think the big thing we’re looking for is congruency and clusters.
I talk a lot about in my lab the five Cs, and two of the five Cs are congruency and clusters.
Decoding Body Language – Looking For Congruency
Vanessa Van Edwards
Congruency is when someone’s words and nonverbal match. Their verbal and nonverbal are in alignment. You might even add in there if you’re feeling particularly ambitious, their emotions are also in alignment.
For example, if I were to say “Yeah. I’m happy to be here.” That is an incongruency. My words are saying one thing, but my emotional feelings behind that, and my vocal power is out of alignment. Whereas if I were to say, “Oh, I’m so happy to be here!” That adds a lot more emotions and vocal power.
Decoding Body Language – Looking For Clusters Of Congruency During The First Meeting
Vanessa Van Edwards
When you’re first meeting someone, we are constantly already on the lookout for these clusters of congruency.
When someone first meets us, we look to see, are they genuinely smiling? Do they reach out and try to touch us or create a physical connection with a handshake or a hug or a high five? Are they making eye contact with us, which produces oxytocin? Do they want a chemical connection with us? Are they leaning in? Are they raising their eyebrows?
Decoding Body Language – Looking For Clusters Depending On What You’re Looking For
Vanessa Van Edwards
We’re looking for positive clusters of body language to see if there is a congruency with them meeting us, and then being happy.
When we’re first meeting someone, that’s what we’re looking for. We’re either looking for congruency. Are they glad to be with us? Or, it could be if we’re learning from someone like they’re on stage, they’re a teacher or even on a podcast, then you’re looking for congruency around competence.
Someone shares a fact, or someone says a teaching, are they saying that with confidence? Are they saying that with credibility? Are they saying that with power? Are they using a lot of “probably’s,” “maybe’s” “just” and “uhm’s” which is less congruent or a cluster of lack of competence?
Depending on what you’re listening or looking for, you’re looking for clusters of those things.
Decoding Body Language And Understanding How People Put Themselves Out There
Kamala Chambers
This cues could be used in many ways when decoding body language. When I was single, I just use it more because I wanted to put myself out there.
I smiled at people, and the other day, I was trying to be my friend’s wingman. It didn’t go so well. She wasn’t as open as I thought. I was walking down the street. I was smiling and determined we’re going to meet some people.
It was Friday night, and we crossed in front of an ice cream shop, and a guy was standing there. I smiled at him. He instantly offered me a bite of his ice cream. I was like, “This is mine in. He’s attractive. This is the perfect guy for her.”
So I took a bite of his ice cream, touched his shoulder, and was smiling at him. I was being friendly, talkative towards him, and giving him all the cues.
Decoding Body Language And Use It Show To You’re Uninterested
Kamala Chambers
I was wearing my engagement ring. It was apparent when I told him, “Oh, yeah. I’m engaged, but my friend here is single.” And she just crossed her arms in front of her chest. She didn’t want anything to do with it. She was completely shut down.
I think that’s what it takes to put yourself out there and be engaged with someone making that eye contact.
Are there other ways we can use this outside of dating?
Vanessa Van Edwards
Yeah.
Decoding Body Language – Finding Congruency With Every Person, You Touch
Vanessa Van Edwards
I’ve been running my business for ten years, and there is no better experiment in people as running your own business. Usually, if you’re like me, most entrepreneurs wear every hat in the business.
They are sales, marketing research developments, operations, manager, and intern. We are at all. I think this idea of trying to find congruency with people is with every person you touch, or at least, it should be. This even works on emails.
Decoding Body Language – Look For Threads Of Commonality
Vanessa Van Edwards
For example, you can be very charismatic in an email, and the way you do this is by looking for “me too’s.” I call this thread theory. It’s my clubber play on string theory, but no one ever gets it because it was a nerdy science joke. What this idea is about is you’re always looking for threads of commonality.
When you’re with someone or when you’re emailing with someone, you’re looking for ways they can say, or you can say, “Oh, me too!” That could be at a conference or something casual where you grew up or what you’re working on or vacations you’ve been. In an email or at work, it could be values looking for an efficient business partner, seeking to collaborate with someone, and having the same goals.
Decoding Body Language And Having More Connections Because Of Me Too’s
Vanessa Van Edwards
The more “me too’s” you can have in any kind of interaction, whether that’s phone, digital, or in person, the more connections you’re going to have.
Kamala Chambers
I love that.
We interviewed retired FBI agent, Dr. Jack Schafer on the show and he talked about facial cues, and how you do this thing called eyebrow flashing where you raise your eyebrows, get a smile on your face, and you tilt your head. People know you’re not a threat because you’re exposing the main artery in your neck by tilting your head.
Do you have any other facial cues you recommend people use to have people feel more at ease around you?
Vanessa Van Edwards
That’s an interesting one.
Decoding Body Language – What Eyebrow Raise Means
Vanessa Van Edwards
The eyebrow raise is right. Eyebrow raise is a sign of engagement or curiosity.
In fact, if you quickly raise your eyebrows at someone, and angle your chin down, that’s a very flirtatious move. But if you just do one eyebrow raise and angle your chin up, it’s more of a curious, “tell me more” move. Eyebrow raise is quite new ones in its way.
Decoding Body Language – What Nodding Means
Vanessa Van Edwards
I would say the other thing we do particularly in western culture is the nod. A nod is a very powerful and underutilized non-verbal cue of acknowledgment, engagement, and agreement.
In Western cultures, we shake our head vertically for yes, and we shake our head horizontally for no. When people greet each other down in the hallway or across a busy room, you often nod at them to say “Yup, I see you. I know you. I’m coming over.” But this also happens in conversations.
When we agree with what someone says, when we do a small nod or a subtle nod, it’s saying to them “Yes. I am on the same page. I’m totally with you.” We can also do this to encourage someone to keep talking. If someone is a little quieter or a more introverted and you want them to go deeper, talk more, and have them keep going. You can do a slow triple nod. So to say, one, two, three. You can even add a little head tilt.
Decoding Body Language To Encourage Someone To Keep Talking
Vanessa Van Edwards
That is non-verbal “…”. It’s like a little ellipsis. It’s telling someone “Please, keep going. Tell me more. I’m interested. Keep talking.” Almost always someone will keep going after that.
I typically will use that if I’m interviewing or negotiating or interrogating someone. On a rough day, we do lie detection in our lab. I’ll do that to get someone to go deeper after they’ve added a silence at the end of their words. I will usually do that if I want them to keep going.
Kamala Chambers
My mom told me about that nodding thing on decoding body language because she used to be in sales and now she is a full-time psychic.
Decoding Body Language And Getting People Into A Yes Position
Kamala Chambers
Before, when she was in sales, she talked about a thing she learned was to nod your head to get someone else to start nodding their head because they would mimic you. And so, they get more into a “yes” position within themselves.
Vanessa Van Edwards
Yeah.
When we talk about influence are non-verbal, that is the fine line between manipulation and persuasion. It is a very fine line.
Decoding Body Language And Understanding The Fine Line Between Manipulation And Persuasion
Vanessa Van Edwards
I think if you’re talking about something that’s good for them, and you want them to opt-in into it like when you’re trying to convince someone to eat healthy, fantastic. If you’re using it for other more nefarious purposes, proceed with caution.
Luis Congdon
I completely agree. Do you guys see what I just did there? I saw a “me too” there.
Vanessa Van Edwards
I like it.
TV Show On Decoding Body Language
Luis Congdon
I’m curious from you. I don’t know if you ever watched it. It’s a TV show I enjoyed about decoding body language. It was called Lie to Me.
Vanessa Van Edwards
Yeah!
Luis Congdon
Did you like that show?
Vanessa Van Edwards
Yes.
Lie to Me is based on a real life man. His name is Dr. Paul Ekman, and he’s who I trained with. He’s one of my inspirations for my career if you could say.
Decoding Body Language And Microexpressions
Vanessa Van Edwards
Dr. Paul Ekman discovered something called the micro expression, and this is something I talk about a lot in the book, which is there are seven universal facial expressions, four different emotions across cultures and races. And being able to read and decode those seven micro expressions helps you speed up connection.
Vanessa Van Edwards
Lie To Me is based on his work. What’s interesting is in the first season of that show, Dr. Paul Ekman was with the original writer and did a lot of consulting for them.
Understanding Science Of Decoding Body Language
Vanessa Van Edwards
In fact, he has a blog for every single episode where he talks about the real science in every single episode. I highly recommend you to watch the show and read his blog along each episode.
But in seasons two and three, they changed a little the writing. Dr. Ekman did less consulting, and it’s not very based in science at all. I love season one but seasons two and three are more magic than science.
Kamala Chambers
It’s fantastic.
Before we close out, I love to hear what some other things we could do or how we can apply this to our lives.
Decoding Body Language And Knowing Your Social Strengths
Vanessa Van Edwards
I think the biggest thing is to think about what your social strengths are.
I think for many years, I joke that I’m a recovering awkward person. I read every people’s skills book I could get my hands on growing up because I did not understand people.
Decoding Body Language And How We Are Taught To Be The Bubbly Extrovert
Vanessa Van Edwards
A lot of those books and resources out there teach one brand of charisma. They teach everyone to try to be the bubbly extrovert. If you’re not an extrovert, as I am not, that is an overwhelming and seemingly impossible task.
One thing I would encourage people to do is to think about, what are your unique social strengths? What’s your unique brand of charisma?
There are multiple ways to be charismatic.
Decoding Body Language And Being Charismatic In Different Ways
Vanessa Van Edwards
Think about where you thrive and what the innate social strengths that you have are.
You’re better off using where you already excel than trying to adopt a strength that doesn’t come naturally to you.
Luis Congdon
When you were talking about that, it made me think of funny archetypes that we talked about when it comes to dating.
Decoding Body Language And Understanding The Archetypes To Dating
Luis Congdon
What it also reminded me of was my journey of overcoming my social anxiety, especially in the dating world. One of the things I always thought was, “Oh, women aren’t going to like the type of guy that I am because of these certain qualities I have.” A lot of them are based on high school stuff. That’s when I wanted to date, and I could not figure out how to date.
Then, in college, I started studying a lot trying to figure out what works and what will make dating easier. I read a lot of books that said, “You need to do this. You need to do that.”
Decoding Body Language And Experiencing A Huge Transformation
Luis Congdon
I remember having a huge change when I picked up a book by Dr. Gay Hendricks. He talked about just being genuine and authentic, and being who you naturally feel like you can be, and how that will create this incredible love connection if it’s with the right person. If it’s not, then that’s okay too.
Something for me shifted there, and hearing you talk about that reminded me of that period of my life how we are led to believe certain ways are better or worse than others.
Decoding Body Language And Understanding There Are No Certain Ways
Luis Congdon
I think each one has their powers or strengths, and this is a great message for the Thriving Launchers listening because a lot of you guys believe that you need to be a certain way in business or that you need to show up in a certain way in social media.
What I’ve learned is if you can try to distil more into who you are naturally, and bring that out, even more, you will find the people you resonate with, and you aren’t socially awkward. You’re just different than the people you’ve been looking at.
Vanessa Van Edwards
Yeah. I love that you had that moment. I also had that moment.
Decoding Body Language And Shifting The Way You Interact
Vanessa Van Edwards
For people who are listening, if you feel like you’re on the cost of that, I hope that this podcast will be the start of that journey, which you have space and time to find your unique strengths, and there is a way to shift the way you interact completely.
Hopefully, this moment can spur you to find that change for yourself.
Kamala Chambers
This topic makes me think about the friends I’ve connected with who have conditions like Asperger’s, and how there is this inability to pick up on those social cues and even display the social cues.
How does this work apply to them or can help people with those conditions?
How Decoding Body Language Can Work On People With Conditions
Vanessa Van Edwards
We have a lot of students with high functioning Asperger’s and adult with high functioning autism that had taken our classes and read our books, and this was a happy accident.
I tend to think very formulaically. If someone tells me “Be yourself” or “Just be authentic” or “Just make friends,” That’s basically like saying nothing. There’s nothing for me to grab onto there.
How Decoding Body Language And Emotion Reading Are Being Taught
Vanessa Van Edwards
The way we teach conversation, emotion reading and friendships are with frameworks and systems which is very much like hacking and programming languages.
What’s great is that science of very black and white approach also works very well and fits in with the way those adults with high functioning Asperger’s learn.
That has been one of the biggest delights and surprises of our work. It’s that we can help that group of people and hopefully, do some more with their feedback.
Kamala Chambers
That is awesome to hear.
Before we go, any last tips or messages you want to leave the Thriving Launchers with?
Vanessa Van Edwards
I think for those of you who are in business, you are a driver or an achiever. My guess is your listeners are high achievers.
Power Of People’s Skills
Vanessa Van Edwards
I think that we tend to seek business successes or we try to get a lot of the accolades in our career that have to do with business achievement. We underestimate the power of people’s skills. We underestimate how much inner personal intelligence can help.
When you are a driver, you have a specific goal in mind whether that’s a raise or raising your rates or a different business level.
Do not underestimate how people’s skills can be both the lubricant for what you do, making it a little easier as well as the glue helping you and your products become memorable.
If there’s anything I can help with, I am happy too.
Luis Congdon
All right, fantastic.
It’s been great to have you here on Thriving Launch, Vanessa.
Thriving Launchers, you’ve been uploaded with tons of information today. The biggest I want you to walk away with is something that you found personally useful in the interview.
I know for me, I picked out a lot of different pointers, and honestly, the biggest thing I’m going to walk away from is I’m going to go watch season one of Lie to Me again because I love that show. I loved it. Sometimes, I do these binges where I just get into a show, and just don’t want to do much else but watch it, and Lie to Me was one of those shows.
How TV Shows And Blogs Can Help You As A Speaker
Luis Congdon
I’m fascinated to watch season 1, read the blog, see the correlations and learn more about that because it’s helped me as a speaker.
One of the things I found out that I tend to do on camera is when I get excited, and I’m celebrating, I used to rock back in my seat like, “Whoa!” and I would jump back. This guy shared with me that when I do that, it takes away the celebration because I’m moving away from the camera, and the relationship is different. Where if I move up closer while I’m celebrating, it brings people in and makes them pull the camera more, see me pulling into their life more.
Find Ways On How You Can Add These Things To Your Own Life
Luis Congdon
These sort of thing can help you immensely when you’re out there social, and you can find ways to add it to your own life.
Thriving Launchers, I know that was long winded, but the whole point is that you guys are special, and I hope you received a lot of value from this interview, and integrate something you’ve learned from today’s episode.
Keep thriving you all.
