Ross Rosenberg Thank you. I’m so glad to be on it.

Ross Rosenberg The book, its full title is The Human Magnet Syndrome: Why We Love People Who Hurt Us. People need to know why they feel stuck and perpetually powerless in relationships with narcissist. I believe that there’s a lot of books in the market that will tell you what to do. However, in order solve the problem first you need to actually understand the problem. In my book, I explained why so many co-dependents or people who feel powerless in relationships were attracted to narcissists. And why they always habitually if not reflexively fall in love with the same type of person. May be over and over again, despite their promises to themselves. So my book will give you hope. It will finally give you the explanation that will make sense to you. It will empower you to look forward and to make the changes.

Ross Rosenberg Sure. In fact, one of the reasons I’ve wrote my book is there’s some misunderstanding of what both codependency and narcissism is. Let me explain first that narcissism can be understood on a continuum that there are healthy narcissistic traits. So narcissists were people that need focus on themselves. They need to be right. They need to have people talk about them, any compliments. They tend to be entitled. They tend to brag and they don’t like to be criticized. The ones that are pathological have little empathy and very limited abilities to connect in a relationship that has mutuality or reciprocity. The controller narcissists are what I call the Pathological narcissists. They involve themselves in a strictly one sided relationship where everything needs to be geared for themselves. That is a pathological narcissist. There are different degrees of narcissists. I have a theory in my book called The Continuum of Self. It actually explains exactly what narcissism and codependency are and they’re set on a continuum. The codependent is someone who makes everyone else more important than themselves. They’re powerless to get their needs but they give in to other people’s needs. They perpetually want validation by trying to love someone or give to them. They have no power in relationship.  

Ross Rosenberg If we look at this two, the co-dependent is someone who habitually are in relationships with narcissists. Because they are the weaker, the more submissive, and acquiescent. However, the narcissists are habitually are in relationships with co-dependents because they are the controlling person. The needy person, the one that needs all of the power and control. The human magnet syndrome withdraws these two opposite people together almost in a perfect dysfunctional balance of a relationship. Like two dance couples, the leader and the follower.

Ross Rosenberg They are attracted to each other because they were raised in a certain way that created psychological harm. I had this on my YouTube channel and I do recommend that your listeners go to it. You can just go on YouTube and just type in my name Ross Rosenberg. I explained that the origins of codependency and narcissism come from being raised by a narcissistic parent. Narcissistic parents need their children to make them feel good about themselves. That’s a narcissism. The way a child adapts to a narcissistic parent is going to determine what their relationship template is going to be as an adult.

Ross Rosenberg For example, if a child finds that they can make the narcissistic parent happy by being the trophy child. The pretty child, the handsome child, the child that’s agreeable, and the child that can always make their parent happy. They learn early on that to be loved, you have to make someone happy. That’s a relationship template that’s going to manifest into codependency.

Ross Rosenberg For example, if a child finds that they can make the narcissistic parent happy by being the trophy child. The pretty child, the handsome child, the child that’s agreeable, and the child that can always make their parent happy. They learn early on that to be loved, you have to make someone happy. That’s a relationship template that’s going to manifest into co-dependency.

Ross Rosenberg However, on the other side, if a child can’t make the narcissist happy. And he can’t figure out a way to make the narcissist feel good about the relationship. This child is going to grow up unattended, unloved and in some cases, neglected and abused. And then, they developed a relationship template where the world is unsafe. They realize the only person that’s going to love you is yourself and that later will manifest into pathological narcissism. Codependency and narcissism comes from being raised by a narcissist.

Ross Rosenberg Right, but I created the continuum of self-theory. In order to help people understand that there is a range of potentials. The most severed co-dependent is all the way on the end of one side of the continuum. The most severed narcissist is all the way on one end of the continuum. One’s all about their own needs and one’s all about self. However, you could also be healthier. You can be like moderately consumed with your own needs. Or you could be moderately consumed with other people’s needs.  

Ross Rosenberg The Theory of the Human Magnet Syndrome is that you match up with someone who fits you perfectly in an opposite way. Not everyone is pathologically narcissistic and not everyone is pathologically co-dependent. We all fit on this continuum. As important is it to understand this as a way to point someone’s problems, it also points their strengths. Let’s say you’re a codependent and you’re perfectly match with a narcissist. As you get healthier, then the balance doesn’t work anymore. There’s no balance, then either you have to go back in your codependency or the narcissist has to change. Since narcissist doesn’t like the change, these relationships usually fall apart.

Ross Rosenberg No, not exactly. What have made you codependent is if you’re relationship with a narcissist and you didn’t try to stand up for yourself. You didn’t try to set boundaries and you just gave up or you kept believing that they’ll get better. However, the fact that you were in a relationship. And you got out of it shows that there’s some level of mental health, perhaps great mental health. The point is just the very fact that you’re out of it, tells me that you wanted more from it. If you read my book on the chapter of The Continue of Self. You might have been more on the co-dependent side but realized you needed to be treated better. Of course, relationships don’t last when you demand that and you have a narcissist as a partner.

Ross Rosenberg First of all, I should tell your listeners that my YouTube channel’s a little less than 2 years old. I have almost 1.2 million views and 10,000 subscribers. I’ve had a lot of people in different medias outlets contact me and say, “What did  you do?” Because I don’t have great photography, great this, or great that. I told them, “Content is people and out in the world who are looking for answers can recognize someone who has something to offer.” And yes, I’m in the business, I have a counselling center, I have a training company, I’m an author. And yes, it would be nice to have someday to retire. Don’t get me wrong. However, more than that, I want to leave a legacy behind. I want to give people an opportunity to grow and change. And this is the young Ross Rosenberg of 1979 who said when he grows up he wants to be a therapist. And he wants to change the world. That was the idealism that stays with me. I really want to make a difference. And so, YouTube serves a dual purpose.

1. I get to reach an international audience and really help people out.
2. It’s really good for business. It really gets my name out.

As long as I put out quality, original content, and my own ideas. Then people want to see it and I’ve never been happier in my life. This is almost like a dream come true because I’m just talking about what I know and I believe. I’m not out there getting pictures, movies, or videos of someone eating a pepper and then acting like a fool.

Ross Rosenberg First of all, it’s not more common. One of the things that I have great pride is my book introduces the subject in a way that everyone gets. The only person that doesn’t get it and he gets pissed off are the narcissists. What I’ve done is I’ve explained it in a way that really clicks. I learned this because until I wrote my book, I had a secret that didn’t want anyone to know. I had deep shame about the fact that I’ve been divorced twice, been married three times because I felt so inadequate. I carried so much shame and loneliness about me as a therapist making that mistake so many times that I didn’t tell anyone. Everyone knew, my friends except my family that I was divorce once. However, when I wrote my book. I wanted my reader to know that this repeated pattern happens to everyone. You shouldn’t be ashamed of it. You should just learn about it so you can change it. I think that it resonates with the co-dependents out there. It gives them hope because a lot of co-dependents like me, they just feel like they’re bad people. They feel they are lonely people or they’re just flawed. And when someone like me gives an explanation, the light bulb goes off and they feel inspired. The greatest feeling that I have is when I get thousands of letters of people saying that my content changed their lives. There’s no money that can make feel that good.  

Ross Rosenberg So I’m speaking universal truth in a way that people would understand. That I learned from my own therapy and my own journey of recovery.

Ross Rosenberg It’s interesting. When I start to write another book, I’m thinking of new things to say and great ways to say it. And one day I came up with a sentence that explained my whole idea for the second book. Now of course, I need 225 more pages. But the essence of codependency recovery is self-love.  

Ross Rosenberg To answer you your question, what advice do I have for co-dependents out that either are stuck in this relationships. Or coming out of it and are broken or beaten up because of it is to understand that if the core of your codependency is you somewhere along the line. Most because of your childhood, you never really learn to love and value yourself. You never really were thought by the way your parents raised you to believe you’re worthwhile to be respected, love, and cared. And because of that early childhood experience or trauma, you keep accepting that because your self-esteem is so embattled and beaten down.  

Ross Rosenberg What I say to this co-dependents who are in relationships. Or abandoned relationships, who are on the verge of repeating the pattern again is to understand that you have to heal those wounds inside of you that cause you to feel not worthy of being loved, respected, and cared for. This is the core of codependence recovery. Resolve those wounds that perpetuate your automatic if not magnetic or reflexive reaction to a narcissist and to accept their harm.

Ross Rosenberg It’s funny you said that because I just finished this session with one of my co-dependent clients. I told her this joke that I’ll tell you. I got this joke from one of my trainings. I say, we’re going to break for lunch now. And imagine three of you guys were co-dependent, are going to ask, “Where do you want to go out for lunch?” How long do you think that conversations going to last? That’s a 15 minute discussion. “I don’t care. Where do you want to go?” “Well, where do you want to go? I don’t care.” And then, all of a sudden, someone who doesn’t have anyone to go out to lunch with because he’s a narcissistic son of a gun comes up. And say “Hey, where are you guys going out to lunch?” Takes over the conversation and they say, “They don’t care” and he picks, “Well, let’s go for Indian food” and let’s say this three co-dependents don’t like Indian food. But they’ll say “Sure” and they go out to lunch and next thing you know, they’re all unhappy but not saying anything.  

Ross Rosenberg Two codependents in a relationship doesn’t work. According to human magnet syndrome, you need opposites to attract. I chose the name Human Magnet Syndrome because we think of magnets. The North Pole where the negative magnetic pole is always attracted to the south pole or this positive magnetic pole. You can always see that opposite magnets attract each other and similar poles repel each other. If you’ve ever known someone who’s going on a date, let’s say both of them are equally gorgeous and attractive but they said there’s no chemistry. That experience of no chemistry is often the result of Human Magnet Syndrome. That the two codependents are too much alike and they don’t feel like there’s any of kind connection. But if you put a codependent on a date with a narcissist, there’s magnetism and charm. All of a sudden, that narcissist feels charming, exciting, and bold to the codependent. That narcissist feels that the codependent is sweet, caring, and patient. The whole time the narcissist talks during that date while the co-dependent listens. The point is if two codependents meet, there’s no chemistry because they don’t know what to do. They like to help and listen. Or if two narcissists meet, they tend to not like each other because they keep interrupting each other. The Human Magnet Syndrome says relationships unconsciously move towards an opposite attraction. It doesn’t quite work out well with two codependents. Have any of you guys ever been on a date with someone who you thought on paper was perfect but she didn’t feel any chemistry?

Ross Rosenberg That means whoever you are no the continuum, they were probably more similar to you than opposite and that’s unconscious. It’s like your mind, part of your psyche, knows that it just doesn’t feel right.

Ross Rosenberg Yes. I was really fortunate to have him endorsed my book. Six months ago, there was a panel discussion I was invited to with him, 3 other relationship experts, and his wife. We got to do a series of video-taped the panel discussions which are available on my YouTube channel. He is brilliant. He is a master of relationship theory. Probably he is one of more influential people in my life in the understanding of the theories that culminated in writing my book.

Ross Rosenberg Well, thank you. That’s quite a compliment. I appreciate that.

Ross Rosenberg First of all I have to tell you my opinion. I think online quizzes are very misleading and I think the whole world on the internet is ADD.  

Ross Rosenberg Everyone wants a complicated subject reduced to like a 30-second sound byte. Those quizzes I see are more opportunities for the writers to get to market themselves because they lack substance. I’ve seen these great titles and these empty quizzes. There’s no real quick way to understand something complicated but that’s why I created my YouTube channel. Skip the quizzes they don’t tell you anything reliable about codependency and narcissism. Either buy my book and if $18 is too much for you, you can go online and go to YouTube and look at my videos. But if you really want to get a bird’s eye view into my newest work, go to human magnet syndrome where you can buy the book. But you could also buy the full 6 hours seminar that has all of my newer ideas. The point is if you want to click bit of information, check out a few my videos. But really, there’s no way to solve a complicated problem quickly. With the help of my content, I promise you you’re going to walk away with an understanding of if you’re codependent or not. But I do have a disclaimer. The videos are just excerpts of all my work. The book itself is a condensed version of everything put together so it’s out there. I don’t have any quick 15-step processes.

Ross Rosenberg To find my book and the seminar trainings, you go to human magnet syndrome. To see my videos on YouTube, just go to YouTube and type in my name Ross Rosenberg. 

Ross Rosenberg I explained this in the human magnet syndrome along with codependency and narcissism. Healthy relationships are mutual and reciprocal even with the problems you experience. Because I think a normal relationship has problems. However, healthy relationship resolves them and you learn from them. It’s when both people can demonstrate and show their love, care, and respect for the other one in a way that the other one feels it. Even with mistakes or some bad behavior, the person that tries to build up their lover, tries to become better because of the relationship. A healthy relationship is to be able to solve the problems, to learn from them, and to always feel loved, respected, and cared for.

Ross Rosenberg Kamala and Luis, you guys were great, great interviewees. Love your show and I appreciate the invitation.